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What are your thoughts on religion?


Jan 16 2007, 06:30 AM (Post #1)
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What do you think about religion in general? What do you believe? Do you believe anything? Why/why not?

I have a lot to say on this, but I want to see a few other posts first.
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Jan 17 2007, 01:03 AM (Post #16)
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QUOTE (Odd @ Jan 16 2007, 05:01 PM)
All three of your admins (even Duke I guess) follow no true religion. It would be hard to sustain any kind of religious group on this forum when you have Jingy and myself running around going "zomg no stop talking". XD

I must also clarify that Atheism is still technically a religion, because the followers absolutely believe there is no god or afterlife. That's why I can't be considered an atheist myself, because I don't 'believe' anything. I kind of hope there is an afterlife myself, but I can't find a logical reason to support that hope. Thus I am either agnostic or nothing.
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Atheism is when you have no religion..because of the fact that you believe in nothing. stongue.gif Hell, I HOPE there is an after life that is a good one. Either that or reincarnation, but I don't believe that there is any higher being.

Agnostic means you believe there is a god, but you don't go by anything in particular.
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Jan 17 2007, 01:16 AM (Post #17)
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I'm a pagan. My faith in my religion comes from the fact that when I walk in the woods, or listen to a river, I can feel the energy in it. It's something that I can tune into from learnings and teachings. I've seen things, felt things, done things that I cannot explain with anything else than a Goddess or a God. I beleive in energy as it's own god, a mother god and a father god, who create and move the energy that holds the earth together. And yeah, I'm really stoned as I write this, but if you've been raised the way I have, and shown and done what I have been, then you'd realise that this world is our home, made with a balance of energy between female and masculine forms, modeled around seasons and movements.

But i'm going to stop now, because i'm going to just get ridiculed.

Just wait until you've taught yourself to walk in waking dream worlds, and feel the emotions of others, and astral project for the first time. Cured me of any non-belief.
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Jan 17 2007, 01:24 AM (Post #18)
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Ridiculed..not by me. O_o People don't respect my views on religion for s*it, but I respect all of you. Even if you're satanist..well unless you're just a f**king moron trying to be "cool" of course.
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Jan 17 2007, 02:36 AM (Post #19)
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My views on religion can be summed up here: http://originxt.com/node/15202 (the economic damage of religion). Basically religion is not necessary and thus damages the world and society economically and socially, brainwashing people into believing in false hopes, or what experts call the "supernatural".

QUOTE (Odd @ Jan 15 2007, 10:37 PM)
Everyone is pretty familiar with my 'belief system'. Basically I think religion is pointless and baseless in all aspects (even this so called "Faith" crap), and was spawned by man's need to have something to look up to other than himself. Simply put, I think religions are created by strong-minded but weak-willed fools.
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I completely agree. Religion was fabricated by the strong-willed looking to find an excuse to explain the inexplicable and to control the masses of uneducated people. Now that science can explain why stars blow up and there are other sources of education, religion is completely unnecessary.

QUOTE (alblurt06 @ Jan 15 2007, 11:30 PM)
Religion is not pointless as Haven says above. It's pointless simply because he doesn't partake in it to begin with, so he labels it that way. I know it sounds rude but you can look at religion as a club with open registration -- those who take part in it say that it is the most fulfilling thing in their life, and those who really could care less about it say it's just about the stupidest thing that human kind ever created. My take on having one half in and one half out of the club? I think that it's a great idea, but with many flaws, nonetheless. The past has been crooked, and things have happened, but haven't all? I just think that outside the whole persecution deal and what not, the lessons that are taught in religion aren't too bad.

Now the other aspect with Haven definitely disagrees with me on is faith: You need faith in order to survive in a religion because otherwise, you wouldn't be doing it. One thing that I really admire about religion is the faith that the believers partake in. It's very respectable. But anyway, I invite the thoughts of others, and if anyone does decide to bash on religion, do realize this key point: You can bash religion all you want, and bring in all the scientific evidence that God does not exist because science is true and what not -- and guess what, I agree with that. But you'll never be able to get it into a religious person's head because of faith.
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The lessons taught in religion aren't too bad—I agree. But they are unnecessary and deprecated now. Like I said there are other mediums of moral education than religion now.

Oh yes, faith. That's another way of defining false hope. And because faith is the infrastructure on which religion stands, religion has no basis.

QUOTE (alblurt06 @ Jan 16 2007, 12:39 PM)
The faith that embodies religion, usually Christianity, is that God has a plan for the person who believes in him, and that whatever happens, that plan will be followed out. If the person is meant to be criminal for the rest of their life or the president of the United States, then so be it -- that's the path, and people have faith in God for that because God is assumed to be doing the right thing for people.

I would just view God as a standard to try to achieve. I would know that I would never get there, but being the best that I can be is probably the best thing I can do.

Why is that?
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There you go again -- false hope. That is the basis on which religion stands.

Ah, so you agree that religion is not necessary anymore, that there are alternative ways of achieving the same ends.

QUOTE (Wrath @ Jan 16 2007, 01:50 PM)
I'm atheist, and a proud one. I think that every religion out there is pretty much bulls*it. Lies, hypocrisy, mindless "theories"..I'm not going to go in depth with why I think this way though. Sorry guys. I'm just sick of explaining myself all the time. However, things involved in religion are sometimes good for the moral values of people, like SOME of the 10 commandments (thou shalt not kill, etc) but it doesn't take a deity worshipping one to have enough common sense that the commandments state.
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o_o Yeah again like I said, not necessary anymore. It's called common sense and reading now.

QUOTE (Odd @ Jan 16 2007, 03:01 PM)
All three of your admins (even Duke I guess) follow no true religion. It would be hard to sustain any kind of religious group on this forum when you have Jingy and myself running around going "zomg no stop talking". XD

I must also clarify that Atheism is still technically a religion, because the followers absolutely believe there is no god or afterlife. That's why I can't be considered an atheist myself, because I don't 'believe' anything. I kind of hope there is an afterlife myself, but I can't find a logical reason to support that hope. Thus I am either agnostic or nothing.
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Garlic doesn't follow a true religion either, so that's four o_o

I disagree. Atheism is the lack of religion, the absence of religion. Obviously if you lexically analyze the word the A- prefix indicates the complete void of something�in this case religion, or god. According to my dictionary, atheism is "A lack of belief in the existence of God or gods."

QUOTE (Wrath @ Jan 16 2007, 05:03 PM)
Atheism is when you have no religion..because of the fact that you believe in nothing. stongue.gif Hell, I HOPE there is an after life that is a good one. Either that or reincarnation, but I don't believe that there is any higher being.

Agnostic means you believe there is a god, but you don't go by anything in particular.
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Yes
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Jan 17 2007, 02:52 AM (Post #20)
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Faith defeats all your arguments, really.

You can argue economic damage, and everything else, but if you talk to a religious person, their devotion is what beats you. It might make no sense to you, but that's really it. Reason and logic < emotional feeling.

What else is there to say?
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Jan 17 2007, 03:50 AM (Post #21)
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Here are my thoughts then:

You can look at faith however you want. It's false hope, definitely. It's light and fluffy and you'd never believe in it. Given that you are one who only looks at logical, it makes lots of sense. And I definitely do agree: There are alternative means to looking at religion.

BUT...

Whatever any of you guys say, faith will always take over. So what if God has never shown up? Your average Joe Religious Guy who goes to church doesn't give a damn as to what you think. He'll read his Bible, pray to God before he eats, and goes to sleep and knows that God will send him on the rightful path. If that's how he choses to live his life, then he can damn well please to live his life that way. Religion is a lifestyle, guys. Just like you choose atheism, or eat high cholesterol foods, being one of the Christian, Islam, Buddhist, and other faiths is a way of life as well. If that's how people choose to live it by believing that a higher deity, then can go and do it. If there is a heaven, then they can all be happy and merry while we burn with Satan in hell.

And with that, your religion as a cause of economic damage falls as well because you are attacking one's way of life. We've already argued this, but I'm not even sure lots of atheists want to go to work and help the economy on Sunday either. People would rather rest and if applicable, sit on their couch and eat high cholesterol foods and watch men hit each other.

The end.
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Jan 17 2007, 04:23 AM (Post #22)
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Is anyone going to refute what I said? I was looking for a challenge.
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Jan 17 2007, 04:39 AM (Post #23)
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First and foremost, I would like to start off by claiming myself to be the most devout person on this board ^^... even for being a depressed emo kid. Now let's get down to the nitty-gritty... You all know me as being the one who never gives up in an argument.. so we might as well get started, lol


QUOTE (alblurt06 @ Jan 16 2007, 04:39 PM)
The faith that embodies religion, usually Christianity, is that God has a plan for the person who believes in him, and that whatever happens, that plan will be followed out.  If the person is meant to be criminal for the rest of their life or the president of the United States, then so be it -- that's the path, and people have faith in God for that because God is assumed to be doing the right thing for people.
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That is Calvinism, and the sects that were derived from it, mainly protestant faiths. But that is not the central theme around Christianity, not in the very least. The basis is more along the lines of that the Christ sacrificed himself on the cross to redeem men from their sin, so long as they believe that He was the Savior, and son of God.

QUOTE (Wrath @ Jan 16 2007, 05:50 PM)
I'm atheist, and a proud one. I think that every religion out there is pretty much bulls*it. Lies, hypocrisy, mindless "theories"..I'm not going to go in depth with why I think this way though. Sorry guys. I'm just sick of explaining myself all the time. However, things involved in religion are sometimes good for the moral values of people, like SOME of the 10 commandments (thou shalt not kill, etc) but it doesn't take a deity worshipping one to have enough common sense that the commandments state.
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If you do not explain yourself, there is no reason to assume you have a fully backed explanation. Please ^^ I want to hear your side.

QUOTE (Odd @ Jan 16 2007, 07:01 PM)
I must also clarify that Atheism is still technically a religion, because the followers absolutely believe there is no god or afterlife. That's why I can't be considered an atheist myself, because I don't 'believe' anything. I kind of hope there is an afterlife myself, but I can't find a logical reason to support that hope. Thus I am either agnostic or nothing.
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Theism = the root word

a- = a prefix use denote "not" or opposite of.

atheism is the opposite of theism. Atheism is not a religion.

QUOTE (alblurt06 @ Jan 16 2007, 07:29 PM)
My facebook status has me listed as 'Agnostic with reservations'.

I know the three admins believe in no religion, but I mean -- Kiro is the only one here with any deep religious devotion.  He gets tag teamed everytime we have a discussion like this.  stongue.gif
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^^ I hold my own. If anything, it solidifies and pours concrete around the foundation of my own faith... and hopefully to stir some up in yourself. My goal is to convert, I'll be open about that, but I'm not going to pressure it. Those who break down and become interested know where I am, lol.

QUOTE (alblurt06 @ Jan 16 2007, 11:50 PM)
And with that, your religion as a cause of economic damage falls as well because you are attacking one's way of life.  We've already argued this, but I'm not even sure lots of atheists want to go to work and help the economy on Sunday either.  People would rather rest and if applicable, sit on their couch and eat high cholesterol foods and watch men hit each other.

The end.
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I would also like to add that religion is not belief, because religion is a social system, not an individual system.

Things in the Bible were written for a reason. Even if it were baseless (eg: Jehova did not exist), they are still there to serve us. Sunday was given to us as a day of rest because rest rejuvinates. I'd like to say that the Earth in 1984 is the world we would face if the systems implanted through the Bible were eliminated.
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Jan 17 2007, 04:45 AM (Post #24)
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QUOTE
^^ I hold my own. If anything, it solidifies and pours concrete around the foundation of my own faith... and hopefully to stir some up in yourself. My goal is to convert, I'll be open about that, but I'm not going to pressure it. Those who break down and become interested know where I am, lol.


Question: What is this with 'breaking down' that you talk about? You seem to give an impression that Christian people are weak because they break down and have to turn to God. I know your refutation already: People who believe in God are strong, and by giving into God, are making the right choice.

It may be wrong, but I would like to hear what you have to say.
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Jan 17 2007, 04:51 AM (Post #25)
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QUOTE (alblurt06 @ Jan 17 2007, 12:45 AM)
Question:  What is this with 'breaking down' that you talk about?  You seem to give an impression that Christian people are weak because they break down and have to turn to God.  I know your refutation already:  People who believe in God are strong, and by giving into God, are making the right choice. 

It may be wrong, but I would like to hear what you have to say.
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Oh, no, nothing like that. I'm just saying you're all so staunch in what you believe, that I'd practically have to make you guys have emotional and physical break downs.. Lol, it was mainly meant as a joke.

Also, the humility of acceptance seems stronger than to deny God's existence. We are, in today's modern age, brought up with the belief system that we are supreme to everything that moves. So, in essence, we all kinda have a superiority complex going on which is hardly deserved.
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Jan 17 2007, 04:53 AM (Post #26)
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Another question: Why do people say they must 'serve' God and give into him? I've been to a couple of churches, and I've heard basically the same thing thrown at me, but why must they say that? It makes me uncomfortable thinking that I will have to step out of my own shoes and my own thought process to serve someone else, when I really wish to be independent.
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Jan 17 2007, 05:02 AM (Post #27)
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QUOTE (alblurt06 @ Jan 17 2007, 12:53 AM)
Another question:  Why do people say they must 'serve' God and give into him?  I've been to a couple of churches, and I've heard basically the same thing thrown at me, but why must they say that?  It makes me uncomfortable thinking that I will have to step out of my own shoes and my own thought process to serve someone else, when I really wish to be independent.
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That's the exact superiority complex I was talking about.. Most people are afraid of having a power stronger than them, and would sooner proclaim atheism so they do not have to think about it.

A serf could serve his King in the old days simply by living in his Kingdom. God's Kingdom is for all those who are willing to admit he is God.
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Jan 17 2007, 05:05 AM (Post #28)
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QUOTE
Most people are afraid of having a power stronger than them, and would sooner proclaim atheism so they do not have to think about it.


I think it's the fact that God hasn't shown up yet is that what causes people to turn Atheist.

I know you guys mention in the book of Revelations that God will come back for a Judgment Day, take all the believers away, and leave the non-believers on Earth to suffer in whatever he has planned.
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Jan 17 2007, 05:09 AM (Post #29)
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If God existed, would you want him to show up? Think of how your life would be afterward.
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Jan 17 2007, 05:13 AM (Post #30)
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QUOTE (alblurt06 @ Jan 17 2007, 01:05 AM)
I think it's the fact that God hasn't shown up yet is that what causes people to turn Atheist.

I know you guys mention in the book of Revelations that God will come back for a Judgment Day, take all the believers away, and leave the non-believers on Earth to suffer in whatever he has planned.
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You cannot say God hasn't shown Himself in this world. There are beautiful things that seem beyond human capabilities... The structure of the macrocosm, down to the essential need of valence electrons.

Someone once said that God does not show himself to those who are unwilling to find him. I believe that fully, because without the provocation and desire to find God, it's impossible to grasp the power that He has shown, and left a vapor trail for us to admire.


Faith is a beautiful thing, it's a shame I can't really describe my thoughts on this too well. Sorry if I'm being a "christian crispie" lol
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