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Galaxy Formation


Apr 18 2010, 09:04 AM (Post #1)
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Has anyone ever wondered why the Universe transitioned from perfect homogeneity to a heterogenous distribution of galaxies? Perhaps quantum fluctuations in matter inducing gravitational excursions for spontaneous complexity formation is the answer.
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Apr 18 2010, 06:12 PM (Post #2)
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It just takes time. Ever notice how your miso soup is uniform initially, but blots together over time if you don't touch it? Things move around randomly at first, but when they get in contact with other things, it's harder to pull them apart. So over time things tend to form clumps.
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Apr 18 2010, 06:25 PM (Post #3)
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Time!
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Apr 19 2010, 06:47 PM (Post #4)
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God.
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Apr 20 2010, 12:13 AM (Post #5)
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QUOTE (Jinghao @ Apr 18 2010, 06:12 PM)
It just takes time. Ever notice how your miso soup is uniform initially, but blots together over time if you don't touch it? Things move around randomly at first, but when they get in contact with other things, it's harder to pull them apart. So over time things tend to form clumps.
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I am not convinced this is the answer. The directionality of time is determined by entropy, the so-called "arrow of time." Since all closed processes tend to a thermodynamic state of maximum entropy, then the production of complexity seems terribly antagonistic to fundamental laws of physics. Further, the apparent structure of miso soup might be better explained by the polarity of the contents coupled with the temperature.

The formation of galaxies requires some type of constricting force that compresses matter that would otherwise occupy a state of perfect non-interaction. Thus, the necessity of dark matter and energy.
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Apr 22 2010, 07:51 AM (Post #6)
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another possibility (if this guy above me said it... im sorry, i don't speak physics) is that whenever whatever happened to create the universe happened, it didnt happen evenly. and stars of different sizes pulled one another and clumped, increasing overall gravitational pull and over TIME pulled other stars and matter closer creating a galaxy. but thats just my theory
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Apr 23 2010, 03:10 AM (Post #7)
Well why can't we do the shuffle?!
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QUOTE (Jumpin' Jodi Gajadar @ Apr 19 2010, 06:47 PM)
God.
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Thank you.

QUOTE (_Id_ @ Apr 22 2010, 07:51 AM)
another possibility (if this guy above me said it... im sorry, i don't speak physics) is that whenever whatever happened to create the universe happened, it didnt happen evenly. and stars of different sizes pulled one another and clumped, increasing overall gravitational pull and over TIME pulled other stars and matter closer creating a galaxy. but thats just my theory
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I agree that it didn't happen evenly. Who are we to say that it happened evenly? The big bang theory says it happened evenly and uniformly. But that's just it...it's a theory. It's not a proven fact. When I took science classes, I was taught that a theory isn't a law until it is proven to be true. Since the big bang theory hasn't been proven, it is not a law and should not be taught as such. Sure, you can hypothesize that "if" this is true, then "that" might be true, but anything beyond hypothesizing is just simply useless.

Prove the big bang theory, and THEN talk about the Universe being homogeneous at one point in time.
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Apr 24 2010, 08:34 AM (Post #8)
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QUOTE (Communism @ Apr 22 2010, 10:10 PM)
Thank you.
I agree that it didn't happen evenly.  Who are we to say that it happened evenly?  The big bang theory says it happened evenly and uniformly.  But that's just it...it's a theory.  It's not a proven fact.  When I took science classes, I was taught that a theory isn't a law until it is proven to be true.  Since the big bang theory hasn't been proven, it is not a law and should not be taught as such.  Sure, you can hypothesize that "if" this is true, then "that" might be true, but anything beyond hypothesizing is just simply useless.

Prove the big bang theory, and THEN talk about the Universe being homogeneous at one point in time.
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though i do agree wholeheartedly that the universe could not have been created in a homogeneous fashion, my very light knowledge of the ideals behind chaos theory lead me to hypothesis over the ideal that there could be a set pattern, but we cant see it due to its seemingly random nature. (if this sounds horrible, im sorry, im tired as hell) but, what i hate about going into that, is that it could lead into a possibly religious discussion leading to more debate. simply, the answer is that there is no humanly possible answer and that the best we can do as humans is drive ourselves to madness pondering over all of it.
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Apr 24 2010, 01:16 PM (Post #9)
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QUOTE (_Id_ @ Apr 24 2010, 03:34 AM)
the answer is that there is no humanly possible answer and that the best we can do as humans is drive ourselves to madness pondering over all of it.
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Exactly.
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Apr 25 2010, 06:40 AM (Post #10)
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QUOTE (_Id_ @ Apr 24 2010, 08:34 AM)
simply, the answer is that there is no humanly possible answer and that the best we can do as humans is drive ourselves to madness pondering over all of it.
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Seems rather dismissive of our intellectual capability. The facts are clear: humans are currently armed with sufficiently accurate space technology to observe the direct aftermath of the universe (called the Cosmic Background Explorer (COBE) satellite) and conduct research with a sufficiently exhaustive mathematical apparatus to describe the quark-gluon plasma nanoseconds of nanoseconds after the big bang. The former provides empirical evidence, while the latter sets limits to how we interpret the data stream.

The relative isotropy of the early universe is best envisioned with the palpable notion of an explosion. If each particle of matter occupied the exact same spot in the very beginning of the universe and were suddenly subject to unfathomably large quantities of energy, would you have not predicted their radial trajectories?
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Apr 26 2010, 06:56 PM (Post #11)
Well why can't we do the shuffle?!
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QUOTE (Cosmo @ Apr 25 2010, 06:40 AM)
Seems rather dismissive of our intellectual capability.
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Really? Our intellectual capability isn't that great. After all these years, for instance, we still haven't been to Mars. We haven't even been able to explore all of our own oceans. We still haven't found the cure for cancer or HIV. We still have problems with overpopulation and world hunger. We still can't prove Einstein's theories. Who is right about gravity? Was it Newton or Einstein?


QUOTE (Cosmo @ Apr 25 2010, 06:40 AM)
The facts are clear: humans are currently armed with sufficiently accurate space technology to observe the direct aftermath of the universe (called the Cosmic Background Explorer (COBE) satellite) and conduct research with a sufficiently exhaustive mathematical apparatus to describe the quark-gluon plasma nanoseconds of nanoseconds after the big bang.
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But scientists, even armed with this tool, haven't been able to see the moment that it happened. This is why the Big Bang Theory is still a theory.
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Apr 26 2010, 10:06 PM (Post #12)
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QUOTE (Communism @ Apr 26 2010, 06:56 PM)
Really?� Our intellectual capability isn't that great.� After all these years, for instance, we still haven't been to Mars.� We haven't even been able to explore all of our own oceans.� We still haven't found the cure for cancer or HIV.� We still have problems with overpopulation and world hunger.� We still can't prove Einstein's theories.� Who is right about gravity?� Was it Newton or Einstein?
But scientists, even armed with this tool, haven't been able to see the moment that it happened.� This is why the Big Bang Theory is still a theory.
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In 1903, two guys working together, more or less alone, created a heavier than air machine that was capable of sustained flight.

In 1961, the russians put a man in space. That is just 58 years. One lifetime.

they were on the moon less than a decade after that.

You are pointing towards little examples, but the big picture is, we throw enough time and resources at a target, we will get there. We f*cking cured erectile disfuntion. Name one other species that did that?

This post has been edited by Communism: May 5 2010, 02:11 AM
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Apr 27 2010, 02:32 AM (Post #13)
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also, you keep bringing up the big bang THEORY. the big bang theory directly goes against the law of conservation of mass. there is nothing that can come from nothing, and same applies to god. what created god? descartes was the only person that came up with anything that even seemed viable, and it was but one line. "I think. therefore I am". the only way we can be sure that we exist in some form or fashion is that we are able to think about it. so, i reiterate, humans are not capable of finding the answer, nor will they ever be.
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May 4 2010, 04:58 AM (Post #14)
Well why can't we do the shuffle?!
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I'm going to just start deleting posts that contain flames/spam. Starting now.
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May 4 2010, 05:11 AM (Post #15)
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QUOTE (Communism @ May 3 2010, 08:58 PM)
I'm going to just start deleting posts that contain flames/spam.  Starting now.
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You can't delete?
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