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Chinese Ambivalence


Oct 29 2010, 07:13 PM (Post #1)
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Yet more, upon endless, evidence, that the Chinese have absolutely no respect for life, treating living creatures like squirming novelties for their amusement or smug notions of upper-class superiority:

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/china/1...species-animals

It's not hard to find hundreds of other articles detailing similar phenomena throughout East Asia, specifically China.
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Oct 30 2010, 05:52 AM (Post #2)
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It's like you are trying to provoke me or Al...

I mean, it's not like a chicken's life is somehow more valuable than a snake's.
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Oct 31 2010, 03:02 AM (Post #3)
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Nope. I'm not trying to provoke the ethnically Chinese...only the post-Maoist culture that slices snakes open alive to cook them (still alive) or take off their skin to use for purse straps, leaving the skinless body to wriggle for hours before finally, dying.

Or...the culture that has absolutely no sense of sustainability, consuming every last square inch of a nation, and then expecting the jungles of its neighbors, or of Africa, to feed its exponential demand for absurd and long-scientifically-disproved "traditional medicine." (Pressuring, in the process, more species to extinction, likely, than all the other nations in the world combined.)

It's just another reason why China is still decades away from being "first world," and why it barely qualifies (if at all) as "civilized." It has nothing to do with where your ancestors came from. It's cultural, not ethnic.
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Oct 31 2010, 08:58 PM (Post #4)
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"Nope. I'm not trying to provoke the ethnically Chinese.."

The words that follow seem to indicate otherwise...
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Nov 4 2010, 02:02 AM (Post #5)
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A few things:

QUOTE
Nope. I'm not trying to provoke the ethnically Chinese...only the post-Maoist culture that slices snakes open alive to cook them (still alive) or take off their skin to use for purse straps, leaving the skinless body to wriggle for hours before finally, dying.


1. Does seeing the early settlers of America leaving hundreds of bison to die on the prairie make you burst with rage too?

2. People need to eat and do with what they can. Ok so the snake is wriggling to death. Are you so consumed with the process and not so much the end result? When people need to eat, they will do anything.

QUOTE
Or...the culture that has absolutely no sense of sustainability, consuming every last square inch of a nation, and then expecting the jungles of its neighbors, or of Africa, to feed its exponential demand for absurd and long-scientifically-disproved "traditional medicine." (Pressuring, in the process, more species to extinction, likely, than all the other nations in the world combined.)


1. China is still in its industrialized age. Look at 19th Century USA to early 20th century, or early 19th century Europe.

2. There are 1.3 billion people. We have 300 million. Do you think we would run our country differently if our country was 4 times its current size?

3. Really? "long scientifically dis-proven medicine"? Link me. And also, tell me why the West FINALLY realized that tea had good effects on the health and well being of people YEARS after Chinese started drinking it.

4. Sustainability? Really? Where in America are we doing this better?

QUOTE
It's just another reason why China is still decades away from being "first world," and why it barely qualifies (if at all) as "civilized." It has nothing to do with where your ancestors came from. It's cultural, not ethnic.


"It's cultural, not ethnic"

You just proved to me that you don't understand China, or to be honest, any other foreign country. China is going to act the way its going to act, and America is going to act the way its act. Haters are going to hate, and you're more than welcome to be inflammatory, but I think your points are mostly ungrounded and based off of external viewing and experience. We may not be importing animals illegally all over the place, but we sure do a hell of a lot of bad things here in the US too.

And yes, your accusations, very insulting.
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Nov 4 2010, 02:13 AM (Post #6)
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I think I should also say: I'm not promoting unethical behavior on this end by the Chinese, HOWEVER that being said, you cannot critique another nation's unethical travesties without first understanding and analyzing the ones of your own.
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Nov 4 2010, 02:59 AM (Post #7)
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QUOTE (HAHAHA @ Nov 3 2010, 09:02 PM)
A few things:
1.  Does seeing the early settlers of America leaving hundreds of bison to die on the prairie make you burst with rage too?

2.  People need to eat and do with what they can.  Ok so the snake is wriggling to death.  Are you so consumed with the process and not so much the end result?  When people need to eat, they will do anything.
1.  China is still in its industrialized age.  Look at 19th Century USA to early 20th century, or early 19th century Europe.

2.  There are 1.3 billion people.  We have 300 million.  Do you think we would run our country differently if our country was 4 times its current size?

3.  Really?  "long scientifically dis-proven medicine"?  Link me.  And also, tell me why the West FINALLY realized that tea had good effects on the health and well being of people YEARS after Chinese started drinking it.

4.  Sustainability?  Really?  Where in America are we doing this better?
"It's cultural, not ethnic"

You just proved to me that you don't understand China, or to be honest, any other foreign country.  China is going to act the way its going to act, and America is going to act the way its act.  Haters are going to hate, and you're more than welcome to be inflammatory, but I think your points are mostly ungrounded and based off of external viewing and experience.  We may not be importing animals illegally all over the place, but we sure do a hell of a lot of bad things here in the US too.

And yes, your accusations, very insulting.
*



1. Abso-f*cking-lutely.

2. "Need to eat?" Wasn't the one child policy supposed to fix desperate starvation? And besides, we're not talking about the huddled masses. Wealthy businessmen don't "need to eat" endangered species from SE Asia and Africa.

---

1. Give me a break. They are not in their 19th century. They are in the 21st century along with everyone else. Maybe Somalia has that excuse—maybe. But China? Come on. Maybe if there were no cars on their paved streets lined with supermodern electrical and telecom transmission lines, then I'd understand that, maybe, their ignorance when it comes to basic civilized decency is somewhat excusable. But, no. No. No.

2. That's a good point. But, again, it's not a case of desperate starvation. None of this is. Crushed tiger bones from Sumatra aren't there because millions are starving in the streets and can't find anything else to eat.

3. You're kidding, right?

4. Western countries realized about 100 years ago that desertification was detrimental to the future. It's a very simple concept that the Chinese, at least policy-wise, refuse to embrace. And judging by the sheer plummeting biodiversity, even in the last few decades, in China, the people have no concept, or no will, to allow wild breeding populations of absolutely anything. Not even trees.

Sorry if you're insulted, but I don't know why you would be, given you're not shoveling live pangolins into crates to go be processed in some back alley. And yes, if I saw you picking at a live fish on a table with chopsticks, eating it bit by bit, I would lose a lot of respect for you, even if it's just part of your admittedly "19th century" cultural frame of mind.

And, China is open for criticism just like any other country. "Just act the way it's going to act" is quite a cop out. Tolerance doesn't extend to the destructive.
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Nov 4 2010, 03:01 AM (Post #8)
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QUOTE (Jinghao @ Oct 31 2010, 03:58 PM)
"Nope. I'm not trying to provoke the ethnically Chinese.."

The words that follow seem to indicate otherwise...
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So all ethnically Chinese people in the world are adherents to the pseudo-communist "I'm just a number that works at a factory" culture?

What post-Mao additions to Chinese culture are you embracing, exactly?
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Nov 4 2010, 09:17 PM (Post #9)
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QUOTE (Jodi Gajadar @ Oct 29 2010, 02:13 PM)
Yet more, upon endless, evidence, that the Chinese have absolutely no respect for life, treating living creatures like squirming novelties for their amusement or smug notions of upper-class superiority:

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/china/1...species-animals

It's not hard to find hundreds of other articles detailing similar phenomena throughout East Asia, specifically China.
*


No objection here, but then again, I don't care about most animals.
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Nov 5 2010, 07:55 PM (Post #10)
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QUOTE (Jodi Gajadar @ Nov 3 2010, 07:59 PM)
1. Abso-f*cking-lutely.

2. "Need to eat?" Wasn't the one child policy supposed to fix desperate starvation? And besides, we're not talking about the huddled masses. Wealthy businessmen don't "need to eat" endangered species from SE Asia and Africa.

---

1. Give me a break. They are not in their 19th century. They are in the 21st century along with everyone else. Maybe Somalia has that excuse—maybe. But China? Come on. Maybe if there were no cars on their paved streets lined with supermodern electrical and telecom transmission lines, then I'd understand that, maybe, their ignorance when it comes to basic civilized decency is somewhat excusable. But, no. No. No.

2. That's a good point. But, again, it's not a case of desperate starvation. None of this is. Crushed tiger bones from Sumatra aren't there because millions are starving in the streets and can't find anything else to eat.

3. You're kidding, right?

4. Western countries realized about 100 years ago that desertification was detrimental to the future. It's a very simple concept that the Chinese, at least policy-wise, refuse to embrace. And judging by the sheer plummeting biodiversity, even in the last few decades, in China, the people have no concept, or no will, to allow wild breeding populations of absolutely anything. Not even trees.

Sorry if you're insulted, but I don't know why you would be, given you're not shoveling live pangolins into crates to go be processed in some back alley. And yes, if I saw you picking at a live fish on a table with chopsticks, eating it bit by bit, I would lose a lot of respect for you, even if it's just part of your admittedly "19th century" cultural frame of mind.

And, China is open for criticism just like any other country. "Just act the way it's going to act" is quite a cop out. Tolerance doesn't extend to the destructive.
*


1. Argument settled.

2. I believe the one child policy was an attempted reversal of Mao era policies that urged the procreation of Chinese individuals so that they could compete with the rest of the world IN ADDITION to helping China move forward in the 1960s agrarian / commune societies. Only when population became larger to the point of ridiculous proportions did Deng Xiaoping institute the one child policy.

The thing here to also note is that people spend their wealth when they gain wealth. So the Chinaman wants to eat a snake because he has the income -- don't French eat Foie Gras? Americans are pretty well known for spending and not managing their finances well either.

--

1. When I mention "19th Century" I mention it relative to the creation of a country. China as an official nation is only 61 years old despite being around 5,000 years. Lest you forget, it was a dynastical system for the first 5,000 years and almost faded to oblivion between 1911 and 1949.

2. Argument settled.

3. No, not kidding.

4. See my argument #1 in this section. Countries always go through a phase of destruction before coming back to realize that they need to fix things. Hello? 1970s? Rachel Carson? DDT? Silent Spring? Any of that ring a bell?
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Nov 10 2010, 04:42 AM (Post #11)
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Because this is good news: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6A90MT20101110 Let me guess, 1. "Who cares?" and 2. "There's 3,500 left. That's enough."
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Nov 11 2010, 03:56 AM (Post #12)
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QUOTE (Jodi Gajadar @ Nov 9 2010, 11:42 PM)
Because this is good news: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6A90MT20101110 Let me guess, 1. "Who cares?" and 2. "There's 3,500 left. That's enough."
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Who cares? There's 3,500 left. That's enough.
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Nov 11 2010, 06:00 AM (Post #13)
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QUOTE (AAAA @ Nov 10 2010, 10:56 PM)
Who cares? There's 3,500 left. That's enough.
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Ah ha! Gotcha!
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Nov 11 2010, 07:24 AM (Post #14)
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Tigers are beautiful and magnificent animals.
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Nov 11 2010, 08:54 AM (Post #15)
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QUOTE (Jinghao @ Nov 11 2010, 02:24 AM)
Tigers are beautiful and magnificent animals.
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Aren't all creatures?
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